Rerum Novarum and Your Money, is it Still Relevant Today?

Phil: Ready to rock and roll. I'm Phil Francois. I'm here today with Darren Deloer. So, I'm the founder and financial planner at Foundation Wealth Planning, and Darren is also a financial planner here at Foundation Wealth Planning. He's got a lot of great experience from Catholic Answers. He went to Steubenville and has a lot of great knowledge on the faith and how it intermixes with finances. We're going to talk a little bit today about Rerum Novarum. Pope Leo XIV has been in the news a lot and has talked about how he wants to continue some of the things Leo XIII spoke about. One very important document from Leo XIII is Rerum Novarum: Rights and Duties of Capital and Labor. It's an amazing document with a lot of great insights, and we're going to talk about it from a personal finance lens—maybe with a bit of macroeconomic perspective—but it should be a good discussion. Darren, thanks for joining us. How are you today?

Darren: Hey, thanks Phil. Good to see you. I'm doing great. How are you?

Phil: Good. So, tell us a little bit about you and maybe your biggest takeaway from Rerum Novarum. We'll just jump right in.

Darren: Sure. My name is Darren Deloer. I'm a financial planner at Foundation Wealth Planning, and I'm also a radio producer at Catholic Answers. Today’s actually my 20th anniversary working at Catholic Answers—the day we're recording this. I went to Steubenville for my undergrad, and I have a master’s degree in theology from the Augustine Institute. I love looking at how faith and finance intertwine. So, I was super excited when I heard the papal announcement of the name Leo. I hadn’t expected that. I thought maybe John Paul, Benedict, or even a new name like Dominic. But when I heard “Leo,” I thought—of course! That’s amazing.

Leo XIII is almost synonymous with Rerum Novarum. He was one of the most prolific writers of recent popes. Rerum Novarum is one of his main works, written in 1891. My key takeaway from rereading it after the announcement is from paragraph 46. It really summed things up for me. It says:

“If a workman’s wages be sufficient to enable him comfortably to support himself, his wife, and his children, he will find it easy, if he is a sensible man, to practice thrift. He will not fail, by cutting down expenses, to put some little savings aside and thus secure a modest source of income.”

Then the next line:

“Nature itself would urge him to do this.”

It’s just telling us to take care of our families, do what we need to do, within the context of Christian morality.

Phil: I love that. I highlighted that same line—it hit me pretty hard too. There’s so much to take from that, especially in today’s world. There are far more things we can buy now than there were in the 1890s, even though they had their own version of top-of-the-line stuff. Today, there are endless ways to spend money. But if we live a modest lifestyle and don’t chase after every luxury, then we can save, live within our means, and even better our lives in a sustainable way. That’s a key point, especially with inflation. Some of the challenge is just how expensive things are, but some of it is also our own desire for more—the bigger house, the nicer car, the newest thing. Sometimes, we need to look inward and ask what we can do to live within our means.

Darren: Exactly. And as paragraph 28 says, “Christian morality, when adequately and completely practiced, leads itself to temporal prosperity.” So, live like a Christian, be virtuous—or at least strive to be virtuous—and you’re going to have a better chance of things working out financially. And this isn’t the prosperity gospel—thank you for clarifying that earlier. This isn’t Joel Osteen on a private jet with shiny teeth. This is just common sense. Be a good person, try to do the right thing, don’t try to squeeze every dollar out of every transaction, be generous, and not only will you be happier, but you’ll likely be better off financially.

Phil: And I think one point he ties in well is how Christian morality restrains the greed for possessions and the thirst for pleasure. That’s often where we spend frivolously. So if we lead a moral life rooted in Christ, we tend to stray less toward those indulgences that sap not only our moral fortitude but also our money. Whether it's gambling, excessive drinking, or other habits—they cost money and make it hard to stay financially stable as well as spiritually.

Darren: Right. This document is incredibly practical. It addresses how we handle our physical lives, but also ties in the spiritual. Some parts of the secular world tell us we’re only bodies, and we should indulge in every pleasure. Other corners of Christianity act like the body doesn’t matter, that only the spiritual life counts. But we’re both physical and spiritual. This document weaves those realities together really well. It offers practical advice for our earthly lives, while keeping heaven as the ultimate goal. That practicality stands out to me every time I read it.

Phil: Yes, and it seeks balance—avoiding extremes. The document identifies two “bad guys”: socialism and unfettered capitalism. It’s not against the free market, but it’s critical of how capitalism was abused during the Industrial Revolution. He says: on one side you have socialism—but remember, we have a right to private property. On the other side, capitalism—well, remember, people are not machines. So the question becomes, how do we stay true to those core principles and find that medium between the extremes?

Darren: Exactly. He even quotes St. Thomas Aquinas: “It’s lawful for a man to hold private property, and it’s also necessary for carrying out human existence.” The family, not the state, is the fundamental unit of society. He says the family has superseded any society—it’s been around since the beginning of time, while nations rise and fall. Socialism always falls. We have a just right to own property. I love the line where he says that when you buy an asset with your just wage—he uses land as an example—it’s your wage under another form. So good. So powerful. You earn your wage, and you use it to purchase something of value. The state doesn’t own that—it belongs to you and benefits your family and, ultimately, society.

Phil: Totally. That actually made me think of stocks. Pope Leo is writing in a time just beyond the start of the Industrial Revolution, coming out of an agrarian economy. He focuses a lot on land. But today, not everyone can be a landowner or farmer. But we can own businesses—and some people struggle with the idea of owning stocks. It feels abstract, speculative. But it’s ownership. If you own a laundromat, that’s good. You're serving people and earning a profit for your family. Stocks are like a tiny piece of that same principle. As long as the company is doing something morally sound, you’re participating in ownership of something good.

Phil: Yes, and back in the 1890s, investing in stocks was far less common than it is today. Now we live in a more service- and consumer-based economy. Owning a share of a company isn’t wrong—it’s a modern equivalent to land ownership. Of course, we want to be careful about the morality of the businesses we invest in, but the concept of ownership, private property, and investment is consistent with Rerum Novarum.

Darren: Exactly. So we’ve talked about socialism and private property. But let’s go back to the issue of unfettered capitalism. That’s not part of Catholic social teaching either. So when we talk about that, what do we mean?

Phil: Good point. It means treating people like people—not machines. That means fair wages, reasonable hours, safe working conditions. Sure, in a tough economy, you could get away with squeezing people, working them to the bone, paying the least possible—but should you? No. You should pay a just wage that lets a person support their family. Pope Leo says a worker should be able to do that on a normal working day—not working two jobs or excessive overtime. Again, it’s about a modest life, not extravagance, but the basics should be covered.

Darren: Yes, and it's all about justice. Not what I’m owed, but what I owe to others. That’s the virtue of justice.

Phil: That’s such a good point. So really, it's a big call to business owners. Are we treating employees with dignity? Giving reasonable hours? Paying fairly? And then, for those who have wealth—because successful business owners often end up in the higher income brackets—there’s a responsibility. Not forced redistribution, but a moral call to give, to serve, to uplift. The state shouldn’t be the one doing it all. It should be us, the Church, and people of good will.

Darren:
Yeah. I think it was in paragraph 20—I made some notes there. He lays out the duties of the worker and the duties of the wealthy owner or employer. One part that really jumped out at me is toward the bottom of paragraph 20. He says, "Because the laboring man is, as a rule, weak and unprotected, and because his slender means should, in proportion to their scantiness, be accounted sacred."

He actually uses the word sacred to describe what the employer pays the laborer. I mean—that’s how important it is.

Phil:
That’s so good. And I think the thread running through all of this is: how do we, as business owners or people who’ve attained a certain level of wealth, lead society with moral virtue?

Even among the wealthier classes, there are distinctions. But regardless of social class, everyone is equally valued in the eyes of God. We all have different resources, different responsibilities—but we’re all called to moral living.

For those who have more, we’re called to use those means to support those around us. And again, we’re not socialists. We don't want the state to be the primary caretaker of the poor. That should come through the Church and through the voluntary moral virtue of individuals—those who willingly share, not because they're forced to, but because they choose to.

Darren:
Yes. And sometimes I just want a number—what’s the line? Like, at Mass, when am I too late to say I’ve “attended” Mass? But the Church, in its wisdom, doesn’t draw those hard and fast lines.

It doesn’t say, “If you’re there by the first word of the Gospel, you’re good.” Instead, it gives us principles and asks us to apply them with prudence. It recognizes that every situation is unique. So we all have to take these principles and really discern how they apply to us.

Phil:
Exactly. And it’s not about hustle culture or making as much money as we can just to have it. There needs to be a moral framework within that drive. Everyone’s state in life is different, but we need a well-formed conscience to guide us.

This document gives us some great principles to do that. It’s also interesting how Pope Leo seems to be picking up where Leo XIII left off. As we entered the Industrial Revolution in the 1890s, we now seem to be entering another revolution—AI, supercomputers, robotics.

He talks about the dignity of work—how essential work is to a just society. But with jobs potentially being eliminated by automation, we’re facing big questions. If business owners start paying less because people are desperate, or replace them with robots to cut costs, what does that say about our values?

Darren:
Yeah, exactly. Just because we can do something that eliminates a job and increases profits, should we do it? That’s a tough question, and we need to start answering it soon. These changes are coming fast.

It’s important for business owners to be vigilant and remember that their businesses serve more than just the bottom line. They provide jobs. They impact communities. We need to keep the bigger picture in mind.

Phil:
Right. Hopefully, we get some guidance from the Vatican, but even now, we can begin forming our consciences on this. How are we going to handle this shift when it comes?

Darren:
I’m glad Pope Leo is addressing this now. I love that Leo XIII wrote Rerum Novarum, but I kind of wish it had come out 40 years earlier. Still, I get that the Church moves slowly—and usually, that’s wise. But I’m just glad someone is putting these principles out there, helping us think through how we move forward without losing our humanity.

Phil:
Exactly. What makes us human? That’s such a big question. And where’s the line—when do we lose that humanity? With the technology coming—AI, robotics—it might be overblown, but maybe not. A lot of people believe these shifts are coming fast.

It can be scary, but we shouldn’t be afraid. We need to trust in the Lord. At the same time, we need to figure out how to prudently deal with these realities.

Darren:
Honestly, I have a lot of hope. These technologies bring a lot of fear, and rightly so—there’s a lot we don’t know. But they’ve also helped reduce global poverty. Poverty today is much lower than it used to be.

So yes, people will lose jobs. That’s real, and it hurts. But this isn’t about sacrificing a few for the good of the many. It’s about developing these technologies in ways that treat people well and align with Christian morality.

That’s not always going to happen—people will abuse these tools—but all we can do is control our own choices. We can model how to use this technology rightly.

Phil:
Yeah. If we can maintain a moral and just society, that gives me a bit more hope about where we’re headed. It all depends on whose hands this technology ends up in.

Any final thoughts—either about the document or what we should be doing as Christians, financially speaking?

Darren:
The document is more macro in scope—it’s about economics, moral principles, labor, and capital. But as a financial planner, I try to apply it to family life.

It emphasizes the primacy of the family. That includes the duty to educate your children and the idea that parents are the primary educators. It even talks about inheritances—leaving something behind for your family—which ties directly into estate planning.

It supports budgeting according to values, rather than just consumerism. And somewhere in there, it touches on the importance of choosing a career path that will support a spouse and children. So there’s a lot that applies to personal finance.

Phil:
Yeah, very practical. And from paragraph 5—I touched on this earlier, but I want to read this quote:

“Thus, if he lives sparingly, saves money, and for greater security invests his savings in land, the land in such case is only his wage under another form. And consequently, a working man’s little estate, thus purchased, should be as completely at his full disposal as are the wages he receives for his labor.”

That really ties it all together: private property, saving, investing, caring for your family, and passing something down to the next generation.

Darren:
Absolutely. That’s good stuff.

Phil:
Amen. Well, Darren, this was great. Thanks for the time today. I look forward to maybe doing another one of these videos sometime soon.

Darren:
Yeah, it was great. Thanks, Phil.

Phil:
Thank you.